Discipleship for Women: From Justification to Sanctification in Every Season

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In this episode of Courier Conversations for Women, Hannah and Mary Margaret dive into one of the most foundational (and misunderstood) topics in the Christian life: discipleship. Together, they unpack what discipleship is, why evangelism without discipleship creates “spiritual orphans,” and how an incomplete view of the gospel has shaped shallow disciple-making in the church.

From Jesus’ model of relational, life-on-life discipleship to the Great Commission’s call to teach believers to observe all Christ commanded, this conversation explores how discipleship extends far beyond coffee meetings or formal Bible studies. The hosts discuss how justification, sanctification, and glorification all belong to the gospel—and why that matters for walking alongside others in faith.

They also address how discipleship looks different for women depending on their season of life: single women, young marrieds, mothers with young children, and women with older kids. With honesty about busyness, interruptions, hospitality, and the messiness of spiritual growth, this episode offers both theological depth and practical encouragement.

This is the first in a multi-episode series on discipleship for women, designed to help listeners think intentionally about making disciples right where God has placed them.

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Transcript

Setting The Stage: Discipleship

Mary Margaret 0:03

Welcome back to Courier Conversations for Women. My name is Hannah Miller. I'm Mary Margaret.

Hannah 0:08

And in this episode, we talk about what is discipleship, how our incomplete view of the gospel affects our discipleship, and we're gonna be talking about how the different seasons of life that we're in as women affects how we make disciples and how we're discipled ourselves.

Defining Discipleship And Misconceptions

Mary Margaret 0:31

So this is really exciting. This is our like first um official topic episode. Our last episode was kind of an introduction to the podcast, and now we actually get to discuss um something, and we're gonna start with discipleship. So we're just we're coming out with the heavy hitters right from the start.

Hannah 0:50

I think you texted me and said, Hey, I think we should talk about this. I was like, okay, that's kind of a big topic, which means we're not gonna cover all of it today.

Mary Margaret 0:58

Yes. So we are gonna have several episodes that kind of get into the nitty-gritty um of what discipleship looks like in different seasons of your life. Because we do think it changes a lot depending on what season you're in, especially as women specifically. Um, you know, if you're single, that's gonna look a whole lot different than if you're married and have five kids and ten dogs like Hannah Miller. So not ten dogs anymore. But we had a litter of puppies.

unknown 1:28

Yeah.

Mary Margaret 1:29

So but I I definitely feel like the the word discipleship itself nowadays in Christian culture, a lot of stuff, at least in my mind, naturally come up when you hear that word. Um so let's talk a little bit about maybe what is discipleship, but also maybe some misconceptions that we have about it. Sure. Um so Hannah, how would you define discipleship? Put me putting you on the spot.

Life-On-Life Over Coffee-Only Models

Hannah 1:58

All right. Well, and when I think about discipleship, obviously, you know, the the first thing and the first person that my mind is gonna go to is Jesus Christ. Yeah. And when I think, you know, obviously he was the perfect disciple maker. And what did he do as a disciple maker? How did he make disciples? How did he do that effectively? And when you look at the life of Jesus and you look at the relationships that he had and and how he did that, you very quickly realize that Jesus was not sitting down in a classroom and lecturing, you know, uh Matthew and Peter and John and all of these guys. He they were doing life together. And I think that a lot of us in Western culture have that concept, like, oh, discipleship is, you know, getting coffee. Get you know, getting coffee or I'm not crazy about it either. So we can be rebels together. But we but it's it's like this idea of getting coffee together or sitting down in a little bit more of a forge. Which is not bad. Which are not bad. They're not bad things, it's just incomplete. Yeah, it's just not how sometimes it looks. And I think that we have to broaden our horizons a little bit with how discipleship can look. Especially for ladies. Especially for ladies who, like, let's just be honest. Discipleship for me and the season of life that I'm in, if somebody wanted to disciple me, I'm I'm a mom with five kids and I, you know, putting food on the table between six and seven every night, and I've got bedtime routines, and you know, kids that I've got to take certain places and certain times, and all this kind of thing. So it becomes very difficult for me to just drop all of those responsibilities and then go meet somebody for coffee. It's not impossible, but it can be difficult. And so we have to be, I think one of the words that you and I have used repeatedly talking about this is intentional. I think that we have to have this mindset about we're not just here on earth to work a job and go to church and then go to choir practice on Wednesday night. Uh, we're here to be missional and ministry-minded in whatever arena of life that we find ourselves in at any given moment of time. And so when I've kind of changed my thinking to realize to grasp that, then whatever I'm doing now becomes an opportunity for making a disciple and inviting somebody on alongside of me to disciple them or for somebody else to disciple them.

Intentional Living In Everyday Moments

Mary Margaret 4:29

Yeah, it doesn't but it doesn't have to be separate, you know. You just it's not a separate thing a lot of the time. Um but but no, it's true because like, for instance, this is I'm not a parent, so obviously I don't know the whole realm of that area. But um this summer I got to nanny some girls on Fridays, so I'd spend pretty much the whole day with them. And it was just interesting because I would go, you know, I I would take one of the girls to a park and you know, there's another kid playing and there's a parent there. And I'm like, oh, okay, so like if I ever become a parent, like this playground will now become my mission field, and now I'll be ministering to parents. Or, you know, we talked earlier about like going to the grocery store. It's like it really back to the word intentionality, like it all comes down to it's you you can't blame it like on your season to have a lack of discipleship. Like it really is the mindset that you have every day of viewing all of the the mundane things that you do as opportunities. So when I'm going to the grocery store, it's praying on the way there, Lord, if there's someone you want me to talk to, if there's someone you want me to encourage, like help me to be available to do that, you know.

Hannah 5:44

And and framing our lives in order to accommodate for evangelism and discipleship. And we're specifically talking about discipleship. And and I think one of the most powerful things that I read even just recently, and I think this is in particular true about the Western church, is evangelism without discipleship creates spiritual orphans.

Speaker 1 6:05

Yeah.

Hannah 6:05

And and I see this so much. And as a counselor, I see folks come in all the time who were saved as young children or young adults, and they've had zero discipleship, intentional discipleship in their lives since then, and they are floundering as Christians because all they've done is, you know, they go and sit under a pastor on Sunday mornings, which you could be a phenomenal preacher, and that not be enough for somebody who, you know, is they they came to the Lord and they've not had any intentional discipleship of somebody who's walking alongside of them in life. Well, I think the problem is that we've divorced evangelism from disciples.

Mary Margaret 6:44

Exactly. Those two go together.

Evangelism And Discipleship Reunited

Hannah 6:46

Those two go together, and we have divorced them. That's a great way to put it. And then that divorce has created orphans. And it's a tragedy in the American church, and not just the American church, but really worldwide. Um, and that's you know, I think a ploy of our of the enemy, which is divide and conquer. And uh, you know, it's been very effective.

A Fuller Gospel: Justified To Glorified

Mary Margaret 7:07

Yeah, well, and two things that came to mind and talking about like discipleship evangelism stuff, obviously Matthew twenty-eight, right, um, eighteen through twenty. I'm gonna read it really quick. Um, says, go therefore and make disciples. Oh, actually it's Matthew twenty-eight, nineteen through twenty. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you, and behold, I'm with you always to the end of the age. And so nowhere in there does it just say, get people to say a prayer or believe in Christ or whatever. No, it's like literally it says teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. Um and so just in the commandment to make disciples is also the commandment to teach, you know. Um and then the other thing I think about is Paul, who is you know, a missionary and did loads of gospel work. Like if you read his letters, he is like aching that they be mature in Christ. Like he doesn't just, okay, you know, you became a Christian and then he moves on to the next region. No, he's like, he's writing letters to these churches, he's longing to visit them again, he's longing to send people to encourage their faith, he's longing to for him to strengthen them and vice versa. Like it's this constant like laboring in the gospel for maturity and for growth and for repentance, for sanctification, and this is a whole nother can of worms, but like I think it's even part of our our kind of not complete view of discipleship is our not complete view of the gospel. Like the gospel is not just justification. You know, justification is when God has declared us righteous because of what he did on the cross, he died, buried, and rose again. When we put our faith in him, we're instantly justified, and he's forgiven us of our of our sins. Yes, like that's important, but that's not the full gospel. The full gospel is then sanctification, being saved, so we're saved, and then we're being saved, we're being made, we're being uh we're walking out that justification, we're we're growing in the Lord, we're stumbling and then repenting and and becoming holier, we're becoming more like Christ. And then it doesn't even stop there because and then it's glorification and we're with the Lord and it's complete, right? And so I think even our very small view of what the gospel is has affected our discipleship. Because if we saw the gospel as this encompassing thing, then I think we would also see discipleship as a very like encompassing thing to keep walking, you know, someone's gotten saved, they've been justified. Now it's walked with them through the second part of sanctification.

Embracing The Messy Middle

Hannah 10:04

The thing about it though is that that part of it is the really messy part. A lot of times the evangelism part, I mean that that part is hard too, don't get me wrong. But when you start doing, you know, I don't know who coined the phrase that ministry is messy, but that's exactly right. Because you start doing the sanctification process because that process is why do we keep cycling through these same sins and issues again and again? Why can't you just hear what I'm telling you one time and then be better? You know what I mean? And and people just don't operate that way. And we we struggle. But it's the same as parenting. Yes. It is the similar to parenting. And, you know, you are cultivating, and I, you know, Elizabeth Elliott, and I'm gonna get this wrong, but Elizabeth Elliott does a lot of writing about uh parenting, and and she uses this phrase of that we have to, and and I'm paraphrasing her, that we have to remember that we're we are cultivating souls for the kingdom, not just children for the world. And that's also true though, about discipleship. And when we as spiritual mothers and fathers, you know, if we lead somebody to the Lord, well, that's not where that's just the beginning of the journey. That's just the beginning of cultivating that soul for the kingdom. And that part is long and it can be, it's not an instantaneous, like the the euphoria is not always there. Um, but the instant gratification that we love so much is often not there. It's getting down in the trenches, getting down in the foxholes with folks, and being will being looking at them across the table and saying, I'm I'm here for the long haul. If you're gonna put in the effort, I'm gonna put in the effort. And we're gonna walk through this together. And uh that's there's not a lot of believers who are willing to say that because it it gets messy. And I understand why, you know, people are users and abusers. I, you know, I see that. I've I've been using abuse in the counseling room where I've had to say, you know what, I'm putting a lot of effort here, and I I'm not perceiving that you're putting in the effort that you committed to. And so I think that it's just best if we part ways. Um, because I do have people that are willing to put in the effort. And so, so sometimes that happens. Like I I totally get it. Um, it it can go both ways, but I think we have to be committed and intentional when we say, I'm going to create a life, and we have to decide this early on, but I'm gonna create a life that has margins for discipleship, and then I'm gonna have to be willing to get into the trenches with folks for the long haul through the discipleship process, and it's going to be messy and it's going to be long and it's going to be difficult, but God has called me to it, and there's no getting around that.

Mary Margaret 12:57

Yeah. That's really good. Well, and I think too, I mean, it takes I think we talked earlier about how we we both grew up with parents who were very intentional with industry. And so, you know, it it was very it was a normal part of life to be at the grocery store and have it my dad having a gospel conversation with someone. Like it just it just happened a lot. And so for some for you know, for people who didn't really grow up in that kind of house, it can be it can take time to develop that mindset. And so we do want to be encouraging, like, to whoever's listening, of like it it is okay as well, like if it takes time for you to develop that mindset. Absolutely. Of because that is that's a yourself.

Mindset Shifts And Missional Habits

Hannah 13:44

That's a whole mindset change. And you and I benefited from the fact that we had parents who trained us from a young age to see the world through a missional lens and to see around every corner the opportunity to have a good testimony and share the gospel and make disciples. But a lot of folks out there, even if they're raised in a Christian home, didn't necess were not re necessarily raised with a missional mindset in their home. And so that's going to take a total mindset shift, and that's not necessarily easy. And it might not come natural. Our sin nature doesn't want it either, you know, and so everything in us kind of fights against it. And and so don't get me wrong when I'm saying all this and you know, thinking that it should be easy or you know, it's just gonna be a switch. Um no, it's gonna it is difficult because it's even difficult for me and it was the way I was raised. You know, I'm I can find excuses behind every corner too.

Mary Margaret 14:38

Yeah, you know?

Hannah 14:39

Yeah, for sure.

Mary Margaret 14:40

Well, and I think I mean it it's it's difficult, but it is simple. Like I think it it literally is it's it's waking up You make it difficult. Yeah. It's waking up and being like, Lord, I'm available to you today, and like I'm I'm I'm willing to get my schedule interrupted. And it's Lord, would you allow if it's your will, you know, put someone in my path today to encourage, put put someone at the grocery store that I can share the gospel. It's just praying those prayers and like being available and just beginning your day with with discipleship in mind, with evangelism in mind, with the Lord like in mind. And and also being okay if like nothing ends up happening. Because it's also like, well, Lord help me to be faithful in discipling my kids, because if I'm gonna be with my kids at home all day, then like those that's your first priority.

Interruptions As Opportunities

Hannah 15:30

I think the thing that you said right there is um accepting and accepting the the interruptions, uh, and I I forget exactly what phrase, what what word you used, but the interruptions to our schedule and our days, and a lot of times with kids, that's when the most um most discipleship takes happen. I mean, it's you know, at 10:30 at night when my 11-year-old comes into my bedroom and I'm laying in bed and my eyes are barely open and I'm so desperate to close them and fall asleep. And she just leans over and you know, asks some, you know, random question about why can't I wear this to church? Or um what are some of the things that she she always asks me like these super intense questions about, you know, mom, can you tell me a little bit about the lake of fire and how that's gonna look, you know, or whatever. I mean, it's just you know, some some theology questions. She's just like plucked out of nowhere. And uh, where is everybody gonna go when they die? Or or whatever it is. And I, you know, and I'm like, really? Right now I'm so tired. And then I have to like sit up and I've got to get my brain going again, and I gotta, you know, gear things up. And that's discipleship. You know, that's me discipling the person that God has put in my pathway at that moment. And and granted, sometimes I can look at her and be like, hey babe, that's a that's a great question. 10 30 at night is like maybe not the time to have that discussion. Let's have it tomorrow. I'm gonna write it down and and we'll talk about it then. And I'll even do a little bit of research too, so I can come to you with a better answer for whatever for whatever her.

Mary Margaret 17:06

But even in that response, like there's an intentionality on your part to be like, okay, like I'm gonna take this opportunity and I'm gonna I'm gonna you know put some intentionality into it.

Hannah 17:16

I'm gonna make sure I talk to her tomorrow or yeah, and not brushing it off and and saying uh embracing the interruptions that happen. I think that one is uh it is a particularly hard one, uh especially for moms, because we just have so much to do. Uh I mean everybody has a lot to do, but it does feel like sometimes there's so many um plates you're spinning that if one of them slows down, everything is just gonna come crashing down. So, you know, anyway.

Mary Margaret 17:43

Every mom talks about their to-do lists.

Hannah 17:44

Uh yeah, so often very long.

Seasons Of Life Shape The Approach

Mary Margaret 17:47

And I'm not, I mean, I'm not gonna pretend like I understand or that it's easy because I'm not a mom, so I haven't been there yet. Um, but I think again in every season there's ways, you know, to just to be intentional and to just also depend on the Lord. Like, you know, at the end of the day, it's not us that's gonna change anyone through discipleship, like it's the Holy Spirit, and we're just yeah and I think that's one of the things too about parenting, about counseling that I do, and all of it being discipleship.

Hannah 18:19

And that's what I tell people when they come into the counseling room. I'm like, I don't want you to think about me as a therapist, which I'm not, or even your your counselor. I this is just church accountability, this is just mentoring. This is what the church is supposed to do is to come alongside of one another as believers in life, and uh, and this is just me walking through life with you, and uh that's that's all that this is. Um, but when you have those have those moments and you're you know working through things, it does look different in different seasons of life. And we've I think we're um that was something I was gonna say with that, but I totally, totally blank. So I don't know, I'm gonna pivot because we have said that we're gonna talk about different seasons of life. So do we want to tease some of those? I don't know how much time we have.

Hospitality As A Discipleship Engine

Mary Margaret 19:07

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So honestly, like I had the idea of talking about discipleship because when we first met to start this podcast, we talked about discipleship and we talked about the need for more discipleship in the church and everything like that. Um, and so it's like it sounds like she's very passionate about discipleship, and I'm very passionate about discipleship. So let's do discipleship. But honestly, when you came in today and we were talking before this podcast, you honestly challenged my own view of discipleship and expanded it a lot because my view of discipleship is is very much I would say more evangelistic, more um, you know, centered on God's word, which it should be, obviously. Um, but you know, very much like let's get into God's word, let me teach you, let me teach younger, you know, high school girls how to have a daily quiet time, how to read God's word, um, how to pray, how to share the gospel. You know, basic sanctification things um for younger girls. But then, you know, you brought your perspective of being a parent and a mom and um and what that season looks like for you, and you brought up a lot of things that honestly I haven't thought that much about, you know. It's not the season of life that you're in. Yeah. And so uh yeah, that was that was a a great you know, challenge to my own view. And so um, Hannah, you had the idea to kind of divide up this discipleship topic into kind of the season of your life, your the life that you're in, because it changes. So like for me as a young lady that's a single, like I have a lot of extra time to have you know youth high school girls over to my house. I have time to spend an hour, a couple hours in the Bible with them if I want to. Like, I have that bandwidth and that flexibility. Um, but as a as a mom, like you were saying, like that's just gonna look different. And also the things that you teach, you know, as you were telling me earlier, are gonna look different. Um maybe speak a little bit on how that might look slightly different in like motherhood, for instance.

Hannah 21:12

Yeah, you know, I had I had very similar perspective as you or early in in that season of my life. Discipleship is more of a formal thing, sitting down, discipling somebody, you know, cut chair to chair like we are right now, or across the table, or you know, maybe a little bit more formal, but then as I became a mom and I started at, you know, one child, two child, three child, and even with just two kids, I had a gal that was coming in every week, and we were sitting down and going through the book of Romans together and you know, and that kind of thing. But then I added child three and four and five. And and so then it became it it got to look where I was like, look, you I would love for you to come and I will mentor you, disciple you, but you have to come into the chaos of my home. And so much of discipleship in this season of my life looks very much uh like is is hospit uh you can't I can't talk about it without talking about hospitality. Yeah and being willing to open my home and being willing to have young ladies and young moms over. And and that was one of the things that I even mentioned this. I was like, we need to talk about this. When I was first started going to Ridgewood, um, the church that we're both members of about a year and a half ago or a year ago now. One of the things like I asked my sister when I first came was, hey, are there a lot of young families there? You know, are we gonna fit in kind of thing? And she said, Oh yeah, there's tons of young families. Like, you guys are gonna fit in great. And we got there and I realized she's right, there are a lot of young families there. We are a middle-aged family. And so I was like, Oh, we're not really a young family because there's a ton of families that are having first, second, third kids. Yeah. And now there's a a quite a handful of that are ha are more middle-aged, like myself, and that have, you know, older children as well, and and that kind of thing. But there's a plethora of actual like young, young families. Lots of babies. And so then I had this moment of I'm gonna come to Ridgewood and I'm not gonna be, there's not gonna be older women discipling me as much. Like I'm now in the role of I now have younger women that I can disciple. And coming from a situation where it's always been, or where I have not had older women that were discipling me, and it's been something that I've really struggled with, and I just thought, why, you know, why are older women not discipling me? And I'm always having to teach the classes, or I'm always having to disciple others, and and that kind of thing. And then I came in the situation and I was like, and it really convicted me. And the Lord said, Look, this is something that you've been looking for, and now here you are, an older middle-aged mom, with basically, you know, the harvest is great. Take your pick. And and so it's saying, Okay, I'm in a church situation now. Whereas the church we were at, there was not a lot of younger families younger than us for me to try to for me to disciple.

Women Leading Women, Organically

Mary Margaret 24:00

And so that was a little bit of a shift for me, realizing that it's cal I mean, it's you're not the first person, I'm not the first person. It's common among among women to feel like there's not a there's not a lot of intentionality with with discipleship. Like, to be honest, especially like if you are going into ministry or you know, myself, like I'm looking at going on the mission field, um, you know, the Baptist courier where I'm working now is ministry. Like, you know, there's a lot of I want to say programming for, you know, people who want to pick up men who want to become pastors, um, and and very intentional discipleship there with, you know, let's meet for breakfast or this or that. And and honestly, a lot of times, like it can feel like the ladies kind of fall to the wayside of that. Um, and I think part of it is like the busyness of, you know, a lot of ladies are moms, you know.

Hannah 24:59

Well, and I think it's too like church administration, you know, the men, the pastors, that they're the men that's discipling these young men, but they have to have women in the church who are willing to step up and say, I'll go. I'll invite these young women into my home.

Mary Margaret 25:15

Because it has to be a little more organic, I think, when it comes to the ladies.

Hannah 25:19

When it comes to the ladies, it has to be a little bit more organic. I think that's a great way to put it. And I think it also has to be, I mean, it it can't be one of the the men on staff at your church. Like it's gotta be ladies in the church. And they can ask as much as they want, but until there's women in the church who are willing to say, because part of the whole difficulty here is that it's difficult for women to go and grab a coffee frequently or get together for dinner or get out of the home. It's hey, bring all of your children, come to my home. I'm gonna open it up for all of you for you to come and and I'll mentor you and disciple you, and we'll just you know develop that relationship. So it does look a lot a lot different, and I think it has to be a little more organic. That's correct.

Closing Encouragement And Next Steps

Mary Margaret 26:02

For sure. Well, we are about out of time, but again, we're gonna have probably at least three, maybe four episodes, and we're gonna cover, you know, what does discipleship look like as a young single? What does it look like as a young married? What does it look like as a middle-aged single? What does it look like as um, you know, older mom with older kids? What does it look like as an empty nester? Um we might combine some of those, but yeah, we're gonna we're gonna do a couple different ones because we wanna be very practical as well. Like we don't want to be abstract and like theoretical about it because we need like, okay, what does that look like? What can I do right now? You know, in the season that I'm in. And so um definitely come back to listen to those. We can't wait um to talk about it. But I'll leave on this note um older woman out there, grab the young ladies and forward to them. They would love to hear from you. Like we genuinely all desire to grow in our faith, and you know, I think we can all encourage one another and help each other. And honestly, when you're discipling someone else, you're also growing in your own faith in so many ways. And so we will we'll stop there and we'll talk to you guys next time. Thanks for listening.

Jeff 27:25

Thank you for listening to this podcast of the Baptist Courier and Career Publishing. Be sure to follow us on all social media platforms, give us a five-star review, and send any question you want us to consider to Courier Conversations at gmail.com. If you prefer to watch our conversations, check us out on YouTube or click the link in the description.